We young people graduate from high school, then go straight to college. Sometimes we know what degree we will pursue. Sometimes we know in what calling we will use that degree. And sometimes, we attain both the degree and the profession...
But let’s take an honest look at the current state of affairs. We hustle off to college without a clue what our major will be or how that major will ready us for a profession, much less advance the Gospel. We switch majors multiple times during our college career. We incur crippling debt. We complete a degree only to head off in a different direction completely, so that the only significance that degree carries is as a piece of paper attesting to the fact that we can see something through. And here’s my favorite: we complete a bachelor’s degree only to discover that all the job listings for what we consider to be “entry-level” positions specify “experience required.” After looking for a job for nine months without finding one that utilizes our degree to our satisfaction, we notice that soon we’ll be forced to start paying off our student loan. So we apply for grad school.
My time at Indiana University left me convinced of one thing: Americans spend far too much time and money in academia obtaining far too little education.
I have neither the time nor the desire to address those problems. Besides, I don’t know the answer. My purpose is only to assert that the current system is broken. But here are some basic questions I suggest each of us–both men and women–ask when we consider the pursuit of higher education.
1. What is the purpose? What is this education preparing me for?
2. What are my motives? Am I pursuing education for the sake of education itself, a profession, money, status, the glory of God?
3. How much will it cost? Is it a wise investment of time, money, and energy? If God leads me in a different direction two years down the road,will the debt incurred prevent me from obeying God’s call?
One thing is certain. We need to stop feeding ourselves through the academic machine. It’s like a big factory that takes people of all different sizes and shapes and churns them out into lollipops–all essentially the same, but available in five different flavors. We all emerge as stereotypical idolaters; it seems the only choice we’re given is which idol to worship. Mostly, we choose ourselves.
This is why both men and women need to carefully ask themselves and each other the three questions above. But if we’re conscientious, I believe our conclusions will result in fewer women than men pursuing higher education in an academic setting.
Men can more often answer honestly that they are seeking a degree in preparation for a profession that will enable them to provide for a family and advance the Gospel through the Church. More men will be able to answer that the time and money invested will be well-spent.
More women than men will conclude that a formal education in preparation for a profession may leave them unwilling to heed God’s leading if He calls them to marry and stay home with children. More women will conclude that they seek higher education out of sinful motives–pride, a lack of faith, greed, a desire to achieve the status that our family and friends expect from us, and a desire to maintain financial and emotional independence from a husband even if we do choose to marry and stay home with children.
Now, I am not proposing that young women in our churches graduate from high school and then sit around waiting for Mr. Right to come along. But I am proposing that if you are in a healthy relationship with a godly man whom you know to be your future husband, maybe the two of you should (gasp!) get married (Read this to find out why ). I am also proposing that you consider other options when you graduate from high school. Colleges and universities are not the only places to obtain an education. Experience, as we all know (and unfortunately, so do those people who write the job listings), is the best educator. Education is so much more than a degree.
At this point, maybe some of you are nodding your heads along with me. Feminism is bad. Culture is bad. Higher education is bad–but wait. Many women obtain a degree–and honor God in doing so.
When I hear Christians imply that education is unnecessary for a godly woman, I fear that the feminists have already won. If it is feminism that is narrowing our options and forcing us to walk lock-step with the culture on the academic treadmill, what–besides feminism–is responsible for this idea that an education is somehow less important for a woman, especially a stay-at-home mother?
We can only reach that conclusion when we believe the feminist lie that being keepers at home (Titus 2:3-4) is a demeaning job that requires little training, little education, and still less intelligence. Some, in reaction against the culture, have unwittingly swallowed the lie that raising children, homemaking, showing hospitality and managing personal finances is a job any simpleton can do well and doesn’t require high-level training. Nothing could be further from the truth. Actually, many women coming from the workforce admit that raising children is a lot more difficult than their office job–and not because the tedium threatens their sanity.
Whether we are part of the workforce or not, the home is our domain. If it is dull and lifeless, that is our fault. We are to make the home a place of rest, beauty, function, training, imagination, refuge, and discipline. It is our job to cultivate physical, spiritual and emotional well-being and growth. And that requires higher education.

Comments
Another problem is that the
Another problem is that the education that women need for managing the home isn't always available. I remember spending the first year of my marriage just reading cookbooks because I had no clue how to cook. I say bring back Home Ec!
Spot on, Michal. As someone
Spot on, Michal. As someone who has spent many years observing the college population, I can say that a very small percent of the students there actually belong there. And most of those who genuinely do belong there are the "returning students" who have already earned a degree in the school of hard knocks.
Recently, I swapped ideas along these lines with one of our elders. Here's part of our exchange about how a college campus is an artificial and unnatural environment:
...primarily because the students ARE prolonging their immaturity by indulging the sexual appetites that are heightened at this stage in life and NOT taking any of the responsibility that goes along with it. This came to me in a flood when I was teaching and studying to be a doula. I walked around campus and thought, "it's just weird how you never see a pregnant girl in all these thousands of young adults," and then with a sinking in my heart thought, "yeah, you do, but you won't know it because the babies will be killed in the womb before they cause a belly to swell." Then I remembered how one late spring, about 6 weeks after spring break, Carole Canfield commented about how numbers at the abortuary spike due to
spring break pregnancies.
In all true, vibrant, living civilizations, maturity of sensibilities follows very
closely on the heels of maturity of sexuality. In all true civilizations men in
particular, must grow up in order to get sex. Because ALL real civilizations have sexual purity as the cultural norm (even though, obviously, it is never absolutely followed by all individuals), young men have to find a way to support the women they want to bed. And to do that, they've got to grow up. The sexual revolution, that "taught" women that they have the same desires and rights as men, that they should be able to have no-strings
attached sex and every opportunity to achieve in the work place, was one of the main wrecking balls to hit what was left of civilization in our era. We are now living among the rubble.
But God always preserves the remnant He's sought for Himself. I am so very, very happy to be in a church that is committed to the hard work of promoting and fighting for sexual purity, that glorifies God with open wombs, and that teaches about His design for men and women. These are the basics of civilization that are lost on most in our generation, but
that thrill those who happen onto CGS and see something truly different from the rubble.
So what would a natural looking college campus look like? Full mainly of very
diligent, hard working, earnest young men, with some young women who played down their attractiveness and were there because they were true academics and belonged there due to their inclinations and gifts. There would be other women around campus, mainly bringing sandwiches to husbands, so their little ones could say hi to daddy in the middle of the
day.
Instead, we have campuses filled with more women than men, with the women flaunting their sexuality and both men and women thinking of education only as a ticket to a job that will pay for their very expensive toys; so, rather than striving to mature and become ready to be weight bearers in society, young people take all the goodies that come with
adulthood while side-stepping all the responsibilities and they actually believe this is the genuine article, the real deal, the height of all they've hoped for.
Plus, they put untold effort into finding ways to do the least amount of work to get the "education" their parents are paying for. It's all part of the same worldview.
Amen, all of you. Home Ec
Amen, all of you. Home Ec though, is not the most delightful way to learn how to run a home. The best way is to have an mentor who comes along side of you and personally teaches you not only the tricks of the trade, but her own valuable secrets to creating a delightful home. I am blessed to have a mother who has come along side myself.
May I add to the discussion the idea that it is the Marxist agenda in this country, ever since the turn of the century, to destroy it from within by creating a communist Matriarchy? Yes, women in the universities are a direct assault against the developing masculinity and leadership of the men in the home first and then at large in the marketplace and the government. And both men and women in the universities who are not made to thrive in such an atmosphere are also a direct assault by the Marxist agenda against the hand of God which created every person an individual with unique capabilities and unique calling.
Everything that is wrong with the education system has not come by accident, but is the subtle and all too cruel devise of Satan for the demise of a once godly nation. But we MUST fight against it. And for those of us who are college women, we can start by caring more about our homes, present and future, and our church communities than our college degrees and high-paying jobs (or any paying jobs in this economy!), and respecting our elders and mentors against our atheist professors and agnostic friends.
Becky, that is so true. In
Becky, that is so true. In fact, my next post will be on this topic. It's already written (by my cousin, actually) so you can look forward to that. I've spent a ton of time reading home management and cooking books, initially because I have a lot to learn, then because I've found I really enjoy it!
I can see your point, Michal,
I can see your point, Michal, but I would say that my Christian liberal arts education is precisely what prepared me to be a better wife and mother. I learned how to think about the world from a deeper and more Biblical perspective, how to engage the culture, and how to debate in a Christian way. Now that my kids are older, my college years prepared me to help them face the challenges to their faith that they will meet in jr. high and high school. I want them to see some of what's out there while I can still influence them and help them think about things from a Christian worldview. My college experience (classes, professors, books read, AND time with friends to sort of hash out what I was learning), as much as my upbringing, is what shaped who I am and how I go about my tasks as wife and mother.
But to be prepared for anything, I think college needs to be a liberal arts education from a Christian perspective--like you say, I don't think most people know what they are going to be called to when they are 18, so they need an education that prepares them for anything and everything, which is the aim of a liberal arts education.
Given the chance, I probably would have married younger (I was 22, just out of college), but boy am I glad that I wasn't given that chance! I needed those extra years to be semi-independent, and so did my husband. I like that CT article, but I also think there is something to be said for waiting just a few years so you can gain a bit of seeing yourself individually as a daughter of the King without having the luxury of a godly man to lean on. Perhaps God would have eventually done the same work in my life if I had been married, but I think it would have been harder on me and on our marriage.
My college education has also enabled me to earn a bit of income working from home. The work I do, I would not be qualified for without that education. My education did not put me into debt, so maybe my perspective would be different if it had. But I consider it a blessing and hope to be able to provide the same for my daughters.
Just my 2cents, a different perspective from someone who has ended up in the same vocation as you on roughly the same timetable and loves it as much as you do.
This is so helpful, Michal! I
This is so helpful, Michal! I am leading a women's Bible study for mothers raising daughters and tonight we are discussing the chapter on "the accomplished girl" (i.e. what accomplishments girls need to have before they are grown) and this is exactly what I was thinking about. To use God's perfect timing of your article, I am going to give everyone a copy. Thank you!
YES. As a sophomore and a
YES. As a sophomore and a woman in college, I go through this dilemma at least once every semester- usually more. Right about when it comes time to register for classes is usually when it hits. "Wait, why am I doing this again? Why am I in school? I don't even want to end up with a job from this degree; I don't even like some of my classes. And I am the one doing this to myself. What's the point? Someone please remind me."
So, I sit there contemplating whether or not I should keep going; dropping out looks really attractive. After all, I could go get a job now and start saving up some money, rather than spending it. Get out of these classes where I cringe every time they show a film, stop neglecting my home now because I have to write that one paper, and quit letting the university tell me it's ok to spend these four years all on me, me, me.
I constantly feel like there has to be some other solution for women, but I've yet to find it. To me, it seems like you have about three options upon graduating high school: get married, get a job or go to college. Like you said, Michal, today's culture puts so much stock in education, way too much. If you graduate from high school and don't continue with school, something MUST be wrong with you. So, after graduating I enrolled in college like everyone else. But, what on earth was I to study? Should I go for something practical that could help me be a better wife and mother, because that's what I really want to do? Should I try to get a degree that I could be sure to get a job in one day if needed? What about something that I could do from the home? Or why not just do something fun since, after all, they did do away with Home Ec? The possibilities seemed endless and everything was telling me to choose now or forever hold my peace.
After doing two years of college, I don't feel like I have many more answers. I constantly weigh out the pros and cons in my mind. I know there are many good things about being in school. I am so blessed that I'm not having to go into debt to go to school- that's such a plus. I do get to take some fun art classes, which I really enjoy. And, I get to be involved with the college ministry- I love that; getting to know the other students, fellowship with them and encouraging one another towards Godliness. That last one really helps me stick it out. But, the real clincher that keeps me in- this is where God has me. I would love to be able to be done with school, making a home and taking care of a family, but that's not where my life is right now. College- this is where I am. And, I need to take joy in it. There are many good things about being in school and I should dwell on them. Just last night, my roommate and I were talking about this and were reminding each other to be content and joyful right here, right now. It's easy for me to say this, or type it, but living this way is a heck of a lot harder.
So, thank you for posting, Michal! It's so encouraging to know that there are other women thinking about these things. I feel a whole lot less crazy. :)
I don't know how I feel about
I don't know how I feel about this post. I can see your point, Michal, but I feel that there was an assumption made here that everyone has the choice of whether or not to attend college. Maybe I'm missing the point, but I just kept thinking about all the people who are not in the position you're speaking of. You say, "We young people graduate from high school, then go straight to college." However, there are still the majority of young people in this country who don't go straight to college, and many who don't even graduate high school.
Working in an all-girls school in a district with a less than 50% graduation rate, I see these effects first-hand. We constantly strive to get our students into college, even just to keep them through high school. And while many young women do have the option of marrying a working man (who also has to have a college degree in order to support his family) and staying home, the majority of this country is not in this position- especially women who don't grow up in a strong Christian home. Thus, college becomes a necessity to survive in this nation where working for minimum wage can barely get you a sandwich to eat. Yes, student loans weigh people down for a while, but would you rather worry about making a monthly payment for a loan or worry about where your next paycheck and meal is coming from?
This is not to mention the fact that our college enrollment is still only about 30% minorities due to the large achievement gap that exists between Whites and minority groups. So, while it sounds nice to be able to have the choice to stay home, I would argue that we do in fact need to continue to push young people, especially minorities and women, to go to college because so many don't even have that choice. Although experience is more important in the work place, if anyone hopes to hold a job that makes more than minimum wage, the reality is that they must obtain a college degree to even be looked at by companies who want to hire. Even then, many families need two working parents to be able to support a family.
So, if you are a young, white female who is dating a man with a college degree that will put him in a job where he can support himself, his wife and his children with one salary (teaching is not one of these jobs), then I can agree with your point. Too bad the majority of this country is not in that position...
I speak as a graduate that
I speak as a graduate that followed the 'pack' right on into a bachelors degree and then a masters degree, incurring debt that haunts me each day. I was taught that this was the only direction for me if I wanted to have any type of stable future. But since marrying my husband, and realizing where God wants me to be, we have an entirely different outlook on roles- despite the culture clash.
It is not by any stretch of the imagination an "easy" life living on one income (that is less than most teachers earn) in the current state of our country and economy. However, I personally feel called to the profession of homemaking, and raising my own children. To look at this role as something that is limited to wives of well-to-do bankers and lawyers is just not right. If one feels called by God to live in such a way, one will do what it takes to attain this life. We are living day to day in constant prayer. My heavy load of student loan debt will have to wait and continue to be postponed. Learning to make all clothes, or shop only at thrift stores, eating very meager meals, moving away from the 'city' to live in a small town, selling things that I make, and teaching our children to enjoy the bare necessities that God has given to us, make this life choice not only possible, but SOOO beautiful!!!!
I think this is a pretty
I think this is a pretty dangerous message. You offer your opinion but virtually no answers. You don't discuss the self-esteem, life experience, self-worth and self-discovery that can come from a higher education. College is not BAD! For many, it's a necessary step in their life journey and that can include a walk with God, too.
I come from a christian family and was taught I could go to college to study what I wish. I was encouraged. I got my undergrad degree, my graduate degree, worked five years, then married and quit my job to stay home with our son. Do I feel my education is wasted? Quite the opposite. Everything in my past has brought me to the person I am today. Not to mention- I wouldn't have met my husband if I didn't go to college (Not everyone is going to marry someone in their hometown in their early twenties!). Another thing you fail to mention is that if heaven forbid something happens to my husband, I'll be able to get a well-paying enough job to take care of our family. I understand what you're trying to say, but it's really not Biblical at all, it's merely your opinion based on your own circumstances. Be careful.
Another thing....self-esteem,
Another thing....self-esteem, life experience, self-worth and self-discovery are all things GOD WANTS US TO HAVE as well. Just because we are christians does not mean we have to walk around with our heads down and constantly concentrating on our ugly sinfulness. Getting married early, staying home, and popping out babies after highschool doesn't mean we are more selfless than someone who wants to pursue an education. Another thing- you don't HAVE to incur debt if you have parents that plan ahead and they themselves have college educations in order to make enough money to do so! This post irks me! And I'm not a feminist, but this is a very unncessary and negative post about something that could be very beneficial to many women, in many different ways.
How exactly do these
How exactly do these college-educated men marry these girls that want to stay home? If the man needs to support his family, he'll probably need a college education. So does that mean a 22 or 23 year old guy is going to marry the girl that's been working at mcdonald's and waiting for him?
Erin, your comment irks me.
Erin, your comment irks me. Your comment is completely based on your own experience. You don't discuss the self-esteem, life experience, self-worth and self-discovery that can come from getting married young and being blessed with children early. Marriage and children are not BAD. Not everyone can attend college and not everyone has parents who can pay for the college education. Be careful. Some of our parents cared more about children than money. God doesn't give everyone five years of marriage in which to earn money before their first child. Many people meet Godly husbands without attending college. You state your opinion that "self-esteem, life experience, self-worth and self-discovery" are all things that God wants us to have, but you give no scripture that contain any of these words. I understand what you are trying to say, but its really not Biblical at all, it's merely your opinion based on your own circumstances.
Yours is a very unncessary and negative comment about something that could be very beneficial to many women, in many different ways.
And yes, getting married early, staying home, and popping out babies does mean a woman is more selfless than a woman pursuing an education. You show me an average college student getting drunk every Friday night or even a great grad student staying up until 3 a.m. studying, and I'll show you a mother who has sacrificed her very body to give a baby life and then night after sleepless, painful night keeping that baby alive. Anyone with half a brain could see which is more selfless.
Ecclesiastes 2: 13 "And I saw that wisdom excels folly as light excels darkness."
Heidi Bayly
I find it intriguing that
I find it intriguing that Kate assumes if a woman is not going to opt for a perfunctory college education and hasn't been proposed to by the age of 18, she'll be a McDonald's employee. Why not a fashion designer, a midwife's apprentice, a nanny, a caterer? It speaks to the deadened imagination of this age that, when imagining a lifestyle that is not lock-step with the culture (college, grad school, career, with marriage and kids squeezed into the cracks along the way), most minds can only conceive of a mass-marketed, franchised alternative.
Of course, McDonald's may be the very place God would put His handmaiden who waits on Him, and perhaps because He loves her enough to humble her in this kind of wage-slavery (which, ultimately, most work-for-pay ends up becoming). See, God is not interested in boosting our self esteem, however we wish to define that term. Pretty much any phrase that begins with the word "self" isn't going to have very high currency in God's economy. He does, however, care about our humility, very much so, and humility comes directly from wisdom, which could be defined as "seeing things as God sees them, and agreeing with Him about who we are and who He is."
May we each ask God for wisdom in this benighted day, for He gives to those who ask; He gives generously, and without reproach!
Erin, You very much ARE a
Erin,
You very much ARE a feminist, for you have passionately articulated most of the feminist agenda, which, in the end, is based on the goal of promoting "self-esteem, life experience, self-worth, self-discovery" and self-directed choices, determined by "following your heart," which, as every feminist knows, is totally reliable and desperately trustworthy.
Lizzie Dear, God is faithful.
Lizzie Dear, God is faithful.
Lindsey, As a teacher of
Lindsey, As a teacher of college students for over twenty years, I have seen the impact of this pervasive kind of thinking. I have seen hoards of students come into the university who do not have the scholarly demeanor or ability to succeed. Many are there because parents believe what you believe, that a college education is a requirement for a successful life; some are there because of government programs that "open doors" previously closed to segments of the population. The problem is, however, that getting a person through the admissions process, funding his education, and even throwing tons of extra resources into his lap to help him through will not make him into a scholar who belongs in the university. It will, however, alter the nature of the university itself, creating an accommodating environment that intentionally levels the playing field to make itself less intimidating to the masses. It will also rob countless young people of the dignity God created them to have, a dignity that can only come from true vocational living. God calls us to do work that we are fitted to do. For some, that is the work of scholarship, for others business, for others labor. Ideally, we each would grow up in homes where our parents loved us enough and paid close enough attention to our particular sensibilities and God-given gifts, as well as to our temptations and weaknesses, that they would direct us into the work we are suited to do, and would speak of such work with words that convey its dignity and worth.
I would rather have my trash collected by a man who was raised by parents who saw that he had a good deal of bodily strength, who taught him that supporting a family with the labor of his hands was noble, and who spoke of garbage men with respect and gratitude, than by parents who pushed him into college, becoming disappointed when he dropped out, and then seeing his life as a failure.
Lord have mercy on our generation.
So i'm a feminist because i
So i'm a feminist because i went to college, went to church the whole time, went to a bible study, got a degree (in case i didn't find the man of my dreams or was alone at some point or heaven forbid had a passion for helping people in healthcare), THEN found the man I wanted to marry at 26, knowing when we had kids I would quit my job and stay home? REALLY? I'm not reliant on God but of myself? God wants women to NOT discover themselves, NOT have self-esteem, NO LIFE EXPERIENCE? These are lies! There is freedom in CHRIST! There is not one path that is right for everyone- God created us differently with different skills, wants and needs! This is a spiritual lie...college is NOT bad. Not everyone should go, it's not right for everyone, so for the 2 percent of girls who graduate highschool and know they are going to be marrying mr. right and wait while he's in college or marry him and start having babies...while incurring a lot of debt...i guess that can work for them, but that is not the only christian way- it is just your way!
You can't go to college AND consult God thru prayer beforehand? Going to college is NOT feminist! That's a lie too.
Of course you aren't a
Of course you aren't a feminist because you went to college. I haven't said that going to college is a feminist pursuit, per se. In fact, more than one of the delightfully anti-feminist women who have posted on this thread have been my students in college, so it would be ludicrous for me to say that college attendance, in and of itself, is feminist in nature. What I did say is that your emphasis on the significance of SELF above humility is completely aligned with feminist ideology, which promotes the primacy of the individual above all else, along with a hatred of authority, and a loathing of all ideology that suggests that biology might after all be at least good friends with destiny...
It is so interesting to me
It is so interesting to me how that whenever a WOMAN, specifically, begins to talk about how much she has benefitted from not having a college degree, that the women with college degrees start a vehement rampage against her.. I think we need a post about pride after this one.
Going to college for you Erin
Going to college for you Erin has not even helped you see past the end of your nose. YOU my dear are the one who needs to be very careful about blaspheming God in your disgusting attitude toward older, godly women who have had far more life-experience that even you. You need humble yourself and seek God, not petty strife with His people.
Have you even read Michal's
Have you even read Michal's article? It is amazing what assumptions synics like yourself can pull out of thin air. Read girl! And stop trying to grab at invisible flies.
"Deadened imagination"
"Deadened imagination" indeed.. Which is exactly what the agenda of the university seeks to culture in it's babes. Dullness. Really, eveyone is forced to squeeze through the same machine, one size fits all. How unimaginative is that?!? I have some friends who are professionals in film-making, and they actually say that corporations in the film industry look for individuals who have NOT received college training, or formal training of any sort, because it dulls the creativity and industry of the individual. These are professionals who looking for people of industry without a college degree! In other words, people who have not gone through the "system".
This is a fascinating
This is a fascinating discussion that I have been thinking about a great deal the past few days while helping a high school senior who lives with us think through her best options for next year. Lindsey, I hear what you're saying. One response would be that when one is writing, one must write to a particular group. There's nothing wrong with Michal writing to her particular demographic in our area and the hordes of IU students around us. That doesn't mean the message would be the same or hold equally true for all demographics.
BUT, at the same time, I would say that I still think her main message (which seems to have been lost along the way) of carefully considering the benefits and costs of a higher education hold true for everyone. I do think it's a mistaken assumption that anyone who holds a college degree will automatically find a better, higher-paying, job than those without. What we really need to plant in the minds of young people is creativity! Give them options and allow those options to be more than just college. What are their giftings? How can they develop those? Is a 2-year degree available in an area in which they would thrive and really enjoy studying? Do they love children? How about a degree in early childhood education from a community college? Do they love to write? Is a traditional 4-year school the best place to hone that skill? What will they have to write about while walking lock-step with every other young person? What about taking writing courses at a community college while getting unusual jobs and watching people--gaining that critical "experience" needed for so many jobs and definitely to be a good writer. Then they can actually be submitting free-lance articles to magazines and establishing themselves in their field of choice. Is someone artistic? What about introducing them to the world of etsy.com and finding a mentor for them in selling handmade items? That's what I think young people need--someone who opens their minds to the amazing and endless possibilities we are blessed with in this country, free their minds from the little box of college as the be-all and end-all, where if they don't succeed they might as well resign themselves to a life of working at McDonald's because that's all they'll be suited for, as kate seems to believe.
"One thing is certain. We
"One thing is certain. We need to stop feeding ourselves through the academic machine. It’s like a big factory that takes people of all different sizes and shapes and churns them out into lollipops–all essentially the same, but available in five different flavors. We all emerge as stereotypical idolaters; it seems the only choice we’re given is which idol to worship. Mostly, we choose ourselves."
There is so much truth in this statement, Michal. Unfortunately, while purporting to teach young people to be thinkers, most academic institutions are merely indoctrinating their students with a faulty world-view through which they then filter every thought.
Perhaps this discussion would be easier for people to swallow if we asked the question, "Do women need to same kind of education as men?" I think your choice of a title, however, is brilliant, because it gets our dander up and reveals the idols of our hearts.
In my own experience, I graduated from a Christian university without debt, met my husband while there, worked hard to follow through and learned diligence, developed lots of friendships which caused me to grow, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Is it necessarily true that God, having blessed me in the path I chose, would not have blessed me had I chosen something other than what was expected of me as a highschool graduate? Of course not! We must be careful not do define our every decision as having been wise because God has been merciful and kind to us.
Thank you for reminding not to let the academy be our definition of what higher education must be.
Nancy, I do think you need to
Nancy,
I do think you need to be fair to Michal's original point that we need to weigh the costs and benefits carefully. She was careful to say that education is by no means unnecessary just because you're planning on staying home raising a family. BUT, there are EXTREMELY few that can go to a Christian liberal arts school and graduate without debt. You and I followed almost exactly the same path at the same time at two similar schools and are now doing the same thing but even with my family's help, I still graduated with a good portion of debt and my husband had even more. I think your perspective really would be different if you had had the same experience. It took us 11 years to finally make that last payment. And that was not because we didn't care about it. When I was working we lived on my husband's income and used mine to make payments. We lived in a cheap apartment that I hated where I looked out our windows at a 21 and up video to save money. We put off having children. Do I look back at my time at Taylor with fondness? Yes. Am I thankful for what I learned while there? Yes. But do I think that's the only way I could be doing what I'm doing in the way I'm doing it? No! If you've been taught to think and read and learn and love doing so, that is what you will do throughout your life, no matter where God has you. My thoughts on homeschooling my children have been from reading and reading and reading and thinking and talking to other mothers, etc. You were raised in the same way (to think) and I honestly think you're giving your college too much of the benefit for who you've become. I really do think this is a helpful discussion for us all as college is becoming more more expensive while at the same time more and more expected. We need to look at our own experience critically and honestly as we think about the futures of our own children and those we are advising around us. Can we be more creative in the church (dare I say open-minded :) than the world around us in giving our young people options that will prepare them well for their futures as servants of the Living God?
I think this post is what
I think this post is what young women need to see and what all women need to be encouraged.
Let me share my expereince. I am 42 years old have been married for almost 22 years and have 4 children. Our oldest daughter is 20 years old and married a godly young man last summer. We also have an 11 year old son, 2 year old son, and 13 month old daughter.
My husband and I were convicted a few years ago to do things God's way and let Him decide the size of our family. It would have been real easy for me to say, " I don't want to start over again", or " Maybe I'll go to college or get a job". Or what about, " I'm too old to start over".
I went to a community college right out of high school not knowing what to major in. I only went for one year and dropped out. I believe way too many young women go off to college just because they are expected to do so.
My daughter was accepted to a bible college that cost $20,000.00 per year. After talking with several friends of hers who were stressed out because they didn't know how they would ever pay down their debt, she reconsidered her options. Many people can't afford to get married, have children, buy or rent a home when they've accrued so much student debt. This may sound harsh, but I believe that's one way the devil stops them from following God's plan.
My daughter put her pride aside and continued with her job, got married, bought a house, and eagerly awaits pregnancy.
Focus on God's word, godly character, and spend time in prayer and allow Him to direct your path, not the feminists!
you aren't any better than
you aren't any better than me- we are all sinners- we are all a mess in our own right w/o God. To say that i cannot see past my own nose- very un-christ like comment. to say i have "half a brain" is very un-christ like. perhaps you call me a feminist, selfish ambitions, etc...let me remind you that we are all equal and you are in no greater favor with God because you are older, didn't go to college, went to college, had kids, didn't have kids, became a christian at 7 or at 77. shame on all of you and your self-righteous (disguised as righteous attitudes) too! We are ALL IMPERFECT and you MY DEAR are participating in this strife. If someone is outspoken enough to put a blog out there- then they should welcome differing comments and you should too. seems to me many of you are in the very same place you claim i am.
Wow, I am shocked at the rage
Wow, I am shocked at the rage against Erin's comments and her stand on why for SOME WOMEN seeking a college education is beneficial and dare I say it, even a Godly choice?! I am no feminist, and God gave us ALL a brain, not half a brain, and he expects us to USE that brain. Whether it be having a family out of high school or seeking higher education- both of which CAN and ARE Godly choices, if the individual feels God's calling either direction.
I am no feminist either- regardless of what Barbara claims equals a feminist view. And I would also like to see Heidi's scriptural back-up for her claim that becoming a mother after high school is more selfess than seeking a college degree? There is no evidence to support that claim - anywhere. What i KNOW is that God offers us hope and a future- ALL of us.... and that means whichever path we choose, as long as it is for HIS Glory, he has a hope and a future for all of us- and that IS backed up by scripture.
Speaking as a college graduate, whose parents also were fortunate enough to save for my college education - and by the way, this does not mean they favored MONEY over our family - they saved, saved, saved and my mother stayed at home....(and afterall, because god gave us a brain to use when it comes to finances) a college education does offer all of those things Erin mentioned - which to some, including me, are PRICELESS! I read the article and I disagree completely that today degrees are worthless. I finished school in 4-years, with minimal debt, earned a degree in Corporate Communications and have been working as a Corporate Recruiter for five years. And that is worthless? Also speaking as a recruiter, having a degree offers a multitude of opportunities that those without a degree does not. I seek the best for our organization, and the best come with an education, or a multitude of experience that is tough to reach without an education. I am sure to many of you this seems self-reliant or self-indulgent, but I have relied ONLY on God in the pursuit of my education and career. If any of you think you can't honor and seek God working professionally, that is just plain ignorant. I get the opportunity to evangelize at work all the time and I take those opportunities every chance I get. Does a stay at home mom get the chance to meet as many non-Christians as those in the workplace and evangelize to unblievers? Doubtful. It goes both ways. You can find ways to be selfless whether you find that in an education/career or homemaking. Let's open our minds a bit people.
I find it odd, Erin, that you
I find it odd, Erin, that you say we are all the outspoken ones, when you are the only one filling your comments with all caps and exclamation points.
Christ actually did insult people. He typically reserved it for the Pharisees, in order to break their pride. "You fools and blind men!" (Matthew 23:17) Sounds pretty close to "half a brain" and "cannot see past the end of your nose."
Sisters, This a kind word of
Sisters,
This a kind word of caution from one of your friendly moderators regarding your comments: keep them somewhat civil and keep them on point. Thanks.
Sincerely,
Michael Foster
Yes Sir, Kind Moderator.
Yes Sir, Kind Moderator. Sometimes women left in a room to themselves just need a male authority to step in and remind us that we must be civil. On behalf of all of my sisters, I ask for the moderator's forgiveness for our less-than-ladylike behavior.
All is well so far. Just a
All is well so far. Just a word of caution.
Way to take us back to the
Way to take us back to the stone ages! This article makes me want become an atheist, but I won't because I think Christ's message is that he endowed us all with certain gifts and that we should play to those gifts regardless of our gender. Unbelievable!
You must use a variation of
You must use a variation of your real name ( e.g. Jane Doe, JDoe, Jane, Mrs. Doe, etc) to publish comments on this website.
You must use a variation of
You must use a variation of your real name ( e.g. Jane Doe, JDoe, Jane, Mrs. Doe, etc) to publish comments on this website. Thanks!
I completely agree with you
I completely agree with you that college is not for everyone and that there are plenty of students in college who do not have the ability to succeed. So, maybe they shouldn't be at that particular school or those particular classes, but I strongly believe that all students can succeed in their own path in college if they have the drive to do so. This doesn't have to be a 4-year college with a difficult course load. I am in full support of trade schools and 2-year specialized schools.
I also agree that some people are meant for different lines of work and we cannot force people into this mold where they might not fit. I would also like to have this type of garbage man. Unfortunately for these men, our society as a whole does not see it this way.
I merely speak of those people who are cut out for college (which I believe is many more than you probably do), but due to circumstances in their life beyond their control, need these extra resources in order to get them there. The sad truth of this nation is that most (and I mean most) young people "do not have the scholarly demeanor or ability to succeed" at the standards most universities hold today because they were not given opportunities from the day they were born. It is also true that most of these students are minorities or women because of the achievement gap that exists in our society solely based on race and gender. Most people try to blame this on socioeconomic status, but if you look at data, poorer White students still outperform higher class Black students. So who are we to tell these lower performing students that they shouldn't be able to go to college because they aren't cut out for it when society is what made them not cut out for it? Or is the argument that God has made them not cut out for it? Either way, we should instead encourage them to go beyond their reality that has been forced upon them and go to college should they want to.
I feel like I have gone far off the point of Michal's original post, and probably even off your comment, but I'm just going with my thoughts...
I realize Michal was writing
I realize Michal was writing to a specific demographic, but I just wanted to make sure others are not left out. Especially because these are the students I work with everyday and I'm always pushing for them to go to college. I do agree though that we need to plant creativity in the minds of the youth! All of these ideas you have sound so wonderful to be able to push students in these various directions if these are the paths they want to follow. I am all for vocational or trade schools or gaining experience for those who know as teenagers what they want to do. We try to speak with our students all the time and prepare them not only for college, but any post-secondary options they have.
I still want to argue though for the majority of young people who have no idea what path they want to follow. What if a young 18 year old girl believes she really does want to get married and have children and stay at home? This is just fine, but then what happens if 10 years down the line, she realizes she doesn't want this anymore and she was too young at the time to really know what she wanted? This is what leads to so many divorces among people who were married young. Then, after not having been in school for 10 years, she's lost and doesn't have any idea what path to follow now. And if the path she wants is to go to college, how much harder is it to go back at that point?
So, I don't think it's a terrible thing to push students to go to college, especially if they are unsure about their own path, because we never know where they will be 10 years down the line. And the truth of the matter is, having a college degree will open up their options should they choose to change their direction in their 30s, 40s, or older.
Dear Nancy, Of course I
Dear Nancy,
Of course I couldn't explore all the ins and outs of this topic in one blog post. But I am by no means anti-liberal arts. In fact, I could write pages in favor of liberal arts education. My real point is that we need to be a little more liberal in our definition of liberal arts, know what I mean?
Again, my point isn't that we should get married at the youngest possible age. I'm saying that if it's time to marry, do it. Don't put it off for selfish or fearful reasons.
If we sat down and talked through all of this, I'm pretty sure we would find ourselves in agreement. I'm just trying to jolt people awake and encourage them to consider the whole spectrum of available options, while pulling the decision back to a pursuit of God's glory instead of our own.
Dear Lizzie, Thank you. This
Dear Lizzie,
Thank you. This is exactly what I'm trying to get at. It's not that I want you to be depressed in your college education. I want all Christian women--and men--to look around and really evaluate the decision and consider all their options. There were things I loved about being single and being in college. So enjoy it, sister! Take advantage of this time to really immerse yourself in the Word of God and devote yourself with a single mind to the Gospel of Christ. Paul is absolutely right when he says that marriage causes us to not be able to focus on pleasing God as well because now we have another person to please too.
Love you.
As for self esteem... Heidi
As for self esteem...
Heidi and Barbara made good points, but I do want to add a few things.
No one needs to go to college to build self esteem. We're born with it. We're born thinking the world revolves around us and our society feeds us this mentality to no end. But really, when people talk about self esteem and how important it is they actually mean pride and self righteousness. What in us can we look to that is to be esteemed?
"nothing good dwells in me" Rom. 7:18 "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick" Jer. 17:9 "None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one." Rom. 3:10-12 "all our righteous deeds are like filthy rags" Isaiah 64:6
The translation there is menstrual rags. Menstrual rags! God doesn't want our pride and self righteousness, our self esteem. He hates it. "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble." 1 Peter 5:5
Now, I know you're probably reeling about the person who is always down on themselves and just needs to get some self esteem. And Erin's right, God doesn't want us walking around with our heads down, wallowing in our sin. It's self righteous all the same. Saying to God, "I'm too bad for you to save me." We must look away from ourselves and trust Christ. We only find our identity and righteousness when we count all things as loss and by grace through faith in Jesus' death do we obtain the righteousness of God. (Phil. 3:8-10)
Now, college... We're told to go to college where we spend all of our time on ourselves "having the time of our lives", networking for future career advancements, creating the perfect equation of coursework, internship, and connections that will ultimately allow us to land the job of our choice which will provide us a good life. To what end? It most certainly isn't for the advancement of God's kingdom. At least not usually. This is men and women.
Self esteem, self discovery, and life experience are tempting arguments and Michal did actually address them, she just exposed the real motive behind these words we use to defend any number of life choices we make.
"More women will conclude that they seek higher education out of sinful motives–pride, a lack of faith, greed, a desire to achieve the status that our family and friends expect from us, and a desire to maintain financial and emotional independence from a husband even if we do choose to marry and stay home with children." Too often we make the decision to go to school, whether consciously or unconsciously, to have something to show our friends and family that proves we're actually worth something when we choose to stay home with our children. Or we use it as leverage against our husband, to have something of our own, some kind of power, lest we actually be weak and vulnerable to a man. We do this, even while we are pleased to make a happy home and raise babies. We love our independence.
And it's those of us who get an education because we want to safe guard against something happening to our husband (which usually means 'if we get divorced') or to be better equipped to teach our children that are probably most guilty. All the while, we're putting off marriage and children during the prime, not to mention most fertile, time in our and our husband's life. Or we're amassing debt when our time and energy could be better spent caring for the orphan and the widow. The things I just mentioned are compelling and reasonable things to consider when choosing education options but not over and against fulfilling the role that God has created woman to fulfill. Instead, we must look to God who fulfills his promises and blesses those who obey and honor him. The riches and degrees and securities in the world are no securities at all, history proves that. God is faithful and always makes good on his promises to his children. College isn't bad and there isn't any hard and fast answer for any situation regarding these decisions. But we must take care not to ignore the way in which God made us as women.
May God help us to see our inability to do anything good on our own causing us so to rely on him and trust his plan for how we are to live. He is a good Father.
Perhaps Christ insulted
Perhaps Christ insulted people because he was perfect. Are you? Doesn't Jesus also tell us to remove the plank in our eye before judging others? And if anyone is without sin let them be the first to cast a stone at her? Hmm.
No, I disagree- I do not have half a brain. I have a whole brain that God gave me. Praise the Lord! With that brain, I've been a student, I've treated people in healthcare. I've used it to sin, I've used it to glorify God, I use it now as a stay at home mom, I use it in deepening my relationship with Christ and my family and friends. I have a whole brain, not half a brain.
If I "cannot see past the end of my nose", that must be why i'm volunteering to help counsel women at a pro-life christian organization. Maybe that's why we give to our church and st. jude. Maybe that's why I am hosting a playdate tomorrow and just put together some little easter goodies for the kids. Any of my friends or family will tell you that I am a thoughtful person that cares about others. I am not consumed by my own selfish desires. But even those who are serving the Lord have to be careful of that. It's how we are by nature after all, isn't it?
Like I said at the start, I felt this was a dangerous post and message because it was a message of absolutes. Everyone is individual. Everyone takes different paths in life- and everyone will come to Christ in their own way in their own time. That is what our personal relationship with Christ is all about. If I had not had my college experience, I would be worried about what my family would do if heaven forbid my husband lost his job, or became ill. I think about how great it will be to substitute teach at my children's school down the line or get back into healthcare. Does that make me self-reliant? No. Why plan for retirement, or put a seat-belt on? We do these things to prepare for the future- for the unknown. Knowing God will take care of us in any situation is very comforting and is amazing, but we still should do our part to contribute to society in positive ways, be responsible for finances, and share God's grace with others.
Like I said before, college isn't for everyone, but being a stay at home mom out of highschool isn't for everyone either. It isn't even for ALL CHRISTIANS alike. I have so many christian friends who went to college and now are stay at home moms. Perhaps some of them are resentful if they are paying back student loans that they are not techincally "using" their degree- but that doesn't mean their experience was wasted. In most cases, it brought them to their husband, brought them to Christ, or deepened relationships with family and friends.
In my life, my mother would have greatly benefited from going to college after my father and her divorced after 30 years. She regrets not doing that and makes only 11$ an hour. Granted, in a perfect world, there would be no divorce (and I'm sure none of you will ever have to face that...sarcasm noted), but let's be realistic...it can happen. Sadly, she struggles financially. If my father and her would have made it, she'd be sitting pretty- and that would be wonderful. But, life is imperfect, life is a mess, and all the "should be's" don't always end the way we'd like them to.
So, I will encourage my daughters to get a college degree and (gasp!) serve God along the way. Get involved in a bible study, get involved in church, find christian friends. Not all college students are out partying at 3 am, and if they are of that emotional maturity, do you really think they'd be better off as mothers at home? If my daughters would rather get married and be a mom out of highschool, that's fine too. I will support that. If they never want to marry and want to be a Dr- that's fine too. No path is better than another- there is no absolute right and wrong when it comes to education itself. Would I have a problem if my daughter wanted to cohabitate with her boyfriend and never get married? Yes. If she lived in a really expensive house and couldn't stay home with her kids because her and her husband had focused on material things instead of more important things? Yes.
I'm very angry and saddened by the judgement on here...namely the name calling and the implication that i'm selfish. I'm done with this- off to go use my brain to make my husband an apple pie!
Dear Lindsey, Barbara is
Dear Lindsey,
Barbara is absolutely right that anything we write must address a particular readership. Believe me, this post is not written to your students. It is written chiefly to a privileged few--Americans, Christians, women. It is written to me. It is written to you.
It's always a little dangerous to get "personal" in this type of blog post, but I think if I give a little snapshot of our story, it will help others understand what I'm saying--and what I'm not saying.
You say, "So, if you are a young, white female who is dating a man with a college degree that will put him in a job where he can support himself, his wife and his children with one salary (teaching is not one of these jobs), then I can agree with your point. Too bad the majority of this country is not in that position..."
After Ben graduated from college, he spent a year working in youth ministry. When he started to look for a job in his field, it was much more difficult than he expected. So he worked in construction the summer after we got married. He got paid $12/hour (or less--I can't remember). That's not minimum wage. But it's also not a job that his college degree helped him to get. We were paying back his student loan and living off of $12/hour. And we were not using credit cards. Then (yes!) he got a job in his field (graphic design). Guess how much got paid then? $12/hour. And I was still in school, so I wasn't working at the time.
So on the one hand, you're right. I am privileged to be "a young, white female who [was] dating a man with a college degree that will put him in a job where he can support himself, his wife and his children with one salary." But if you think that "teaching is not one of these jobs", you're wrong. It all depends on the decisions we make along the way. Ben and I chose to marry and live with a tight budget and raised eyebrows from our families and friends. Most choose to postpone marriage and live in relationships in a way that God has reserved for marriage alone.
We live on one salary and we make sacrifices to do that. But I am so glad we do. But this is a great topic for another blog post...coming soon.
Erin, there are a lot of
Erin, there are a lot of comments to this post and I'm trying to respond to all of them. I'm going to skip yours for now because I can't quite figure out how it pertains to the blog post. I am by no means opposed to women getting college education. I am simply proposing a broader consideration of education itself.
Kate, there are a lot of
Kate, there are a lot of comments to this post and I'm trying to respond to all of them. I'm going to skip yours for now because I don't think it pertains to the blog post. I am by no means opposed to women getting college education. Nor am I proposing that all women get married at the earliest date possible. I am simply proposing a broader consideration of education itself.
Lindsey, Definitely fair
Lindsey,
Definitely fair enough to bring up another demographic and remind us not to forget about other situations. It's a good reminder. And you bring up a good point that to do the various suggestions I made, the student would actually have to have a vision or passion about what they want to do with their life. What I would ask is, does it really make more sense for the young person who doesn't know what they want to do with their life to just automatically go to college as their best option? How many of these students really can get a degree minus any debt? And how does that change their options at that point? I do question the validity of how much having a college degree really will change a person's options at 30, 40, etc. It's highly unlikely that what they majored in as a clueless 18-year-old will translate to what they actually decide they want to do in later years.
I do want to argue with your presupposition in the second paragraph about what leads to much divorce. As Christians, we are called to a different life than that of the world. We aren't called to just explore what we want to do and pursue that with our lives. We are called to sacrifice, to carry our crosses, to live for others. What leads to divorce is selfishness and sin. In your scenario, I would say that the girl that chose to get married and had children that is now, 10 years down the road, rethinking what she "really" wanted and deciding she was mistaken in her choices is choosing the path of selfishness, not the selflessness we are called to as Christians. No-one has the luxury of making decisions in life devoid of its effects on others. She is now called to her life as a wife and mother and if she is following Christ and submitting her spirit to Him, she will be joyful in that calling, not abandoning her family in pursuit of something she wishes she had chosen a decade ago.
I'm glad to dialog about this and hope you don't think I'm being too harsh :)
Lindsey, I agree. I think
Lindsey, I agree. I think that working with the demographic you work with has given you a broader view of post-high school options. And when it comes to marrying young, I agree again. That decision should be made with the benefit of wise council from others who may be able to more accurately gauge our emotional maturity and that of our potential spouse.
It's interesting to me that--in a post-modern culture obsessed with shades of grey, degrees of right and wrong, and exceptions to every rule--I can't make an argument that people should consider marrying younger and pursuing other paths of education without people assuming I'm trying to force everyone else into my mold, which can apparently be summed up as "getting married early, staying home, and popping out babies after highschool." Haha. I've been called worse. Thanks, Lindsey, for reading and responding to the post, not some convoluted perception of my argument.
Dear Aubrey, It seems you
Dear Aubrey,
It seems you missed this sentence in the post, so I'll draw your attention to it:
"Many women obtain a degree–and honor God in doing so."
Why don't we all think about
Why don't we all think about this for a change, instead of attacking those who go to college as "prideful and self-seeking".... especially those who somehow think they are better than others...we are all the exact same!
Have any of you had kids entirely for the purpose of glorifying God? N0- you haven't. We also have children to experience love- to have them love us. We love it when they're well-mannered in public, don't we? After all, that's a reflection of us. That is selfish too.
Do you clean your house to glorify God, or is it to feel good about ourselves when someone stops in to visit? Sure, we can spend time with God about our day, but it makes us feel good (and improves our self-esteem, or pride, to have a clean house.
When you make a wonderful meal- are you only doing it so you and your husband can be physically nourished? No. We like feeling that our husband appreciates us. He esteems us. And it makes us feel good.
My point is that everything we do, everything, is in part selfish and prideful. Evaluate your own life! Nobody can deny this. All sins are equal, all people sin, and nobody is getting it right. Let's be real, people! Come down off the pedastals!
Will you please keep it to a
Will you please keep it to a dull roar? Some of us in work-for-pay jobs are getting distracted by all the commotion and are having trouble "working at it with all our heart, as working for the Lord, not for man." I'm just sayin... ;,)